please evaluate a trade in my league. collusion?

Bat Boy Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Boston

This trade has been going back and forth for Weeks now. This first trade has been vetoed in my league 3 times. The league is H2H and is a keeper league. The trade in question envolves 2 "brothers".

Soriano, Jeter and G. Anderson for M. Ordonez, Renteria and Oswalt. Vetoed.

Now this is the trade offered now and would like some independant input. Thanks fellow fantasy warriors.

C. Politte, Soriano, Jeter and G. Anderson for A. Benitez, M. Ordonez, Renteria, R. Halladay and Rueter.

I feel that the trade is lopsided and unfair. The owner getting Soriano is not giving up that much in this trade.

Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 5:47 pm

Hey man, lets look at this a little at a time. I happen to agree with you, that this looks a bit lopsided. But we have to take a few things into account and to do that I need more info. One thing I want to know is salary of each player involved, and time left on contracts. Also, how each team stacks up in the current standings. I like to look at a side-by-side comparison when evaluating a trade. We'll call the team with Soriano "Team A" and the other will be fittingly called "Team B"

Politte vs Halladay/ Rueter/ Benitez
Both Politte and Benitez are flyball pitchers, but with one difference. Benitez pitches in a better pitchers park. The one thing that is important here though is the save numbers. Benitez may get traded mid-season, but is not a great guy to have in clutch situations and may become a setup man wherever he goes. Politte appears entrenched in Toronto with Kelvim Escobar's move to the rotation. Halladay is a solid young starter, and Rueter could provide some respectable numbers this year, without posting many strikeouts.
I'd say Team A wins at the moment (depending on what their current pitching looks like).

Jeter/Soriano/Anderson vs Renteria/Ordonez
This is a tough call, due to Jeter's injury. However, we need to look at what will happen the rest of the way, not what has already happened. Renteria has hit for some power and swipped some bases this year, but has never hit more than 20 homers in a year. Jeter probably won't top 20 this year either, due to missed time and a reported problem with turning on inside pitches (due to the shoulder injury). I'd guess that the rest of the way, both will hit between 10-15 homers max. I also believe they'll swipe similar amounts of bases, but this will be decided by how willing Joe Torre is to let Jeter go sliding into bases I think. Average will be similar, as will RBI's, but I think that in the Yankee offense Jeter will be a lot better at scoring runs.

Mags could go 40-20 this season if he decides he wants to start running. Also, if the White Sox get rid of Jerry Manuel (as they should) then you could see a re-emergence of the Sox offense, creating more RBI and Run opps than Mags has had this year. Even if there isn't a change, you can't figure that Paul Konerko will continue hitting .210 all year, and he's a streaky player. When Konerko heats up, it'll only help Mags that much more. Besides that, Anderson is not nearly as disciplined a hitter and I'll always tend towards the disciplined player, especially in a keeper league.
Winner here is Team B

I think that at a precursory glance, Team B is winning this trade by a fair amount. I'm not convinced that Rueter is gonna put up the same numbers all year, but it doesn't really matter Long term because he's also not going to be on Team A's roster next year. In my opinion, you'd have a fair reason to protest the trade.

Fantasy Warriors, I like that! Thumbs Up

Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 6:12 pm

I also would want to know what the salaries and remaining contract time looks like on these players. When talking about keeper leagues salaries are very important in trades.

If one team is trading to build for next season then the trade can rightly be lopsided in regards to this season. This happens in real baseball all the time. Also future preceived value is a major compo Nent in trades in ongoing leagues. This is why I am hesitant to ever encouraging vetos in keeper leagues.

Bat Boy Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Boston

To answer your questions there are no salaries involved.

This is the 1st yr of the league. And the keepers will be signed to teams with contracts. Being:
3-1yr contracts
3-2yr contracts
2-3yr contracts
2-3yr rookie contracts.

Noone is on contract at the moment , since it is the 1st yr.

The standings for these teams are "

Team A "Soriano" 6th

Team B 1st.

Bat Boy Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Boston

you asked about Team A and there pitching situation. Real quick
is:

SP - Hudson, Lohse, Clement, Benson, Tomko, Foppert, Lawrence, Lyon and Politte.

Reserves are 6 bench players. Which this team has 3 for batting and 3 for pitching. I find it Strange to try a trade for more pitching. But thats not unheard of.

Plus this team might be thinking they can trade Soriano, since they have Marcus Giles to take his place.

I guess I could live with Jeter for edgar. But with Soriano in this deal. I feel team B is getting the better trade, considering the Long term outlook.

Ill feel the Pitchers team A is getting are very minumul impact starting pitchers. Although team A is getting a quality closer. But the value of the closer in a head to head league is some what minumul too.

I truly hate vetoeing and it worse when someone is trying to sell you a bridge you nevuh heard of.
I hate vetoing any trades that are not truely lopsided.

Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 6:59 pm

One thing I have to comment on...Roy Halladay is much more than a minimal impact SP, he is one of the top young studs in the AL..

Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 7:00 pm

Given the lack of salaries I do feel it is a lopsided trade.

Posted: Tue May 27, 2003 7:03 pm

I agree, I dislike protesting trades, but I think that this one looks a little too suspicious. Team A is loaded with young pitching. While Halladay might replace a bench starter, Rueter looks like a throw in to make the trade appear balanced, which it's not. Team B comes away from this one looking like Dick Cheney after he just "awarded" the contract to his own company to cleanup the Iraqi Oil Wells. I'd say collusion sounds pretty....oh, what's the word I'm looking for... oh, yeah - accurate! Mr. Green

Bat Boy Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Boston

Yes, I agree with you on him. He is underated and overated at the same time though. Depending who I talk to. And do think he is finally coming into his own. If he can hold on to what he had last year he will continue to be in the top 25 Pitching Club for now.

But can you call him a young prospect with 6yrs in the league, lol.

Last year was the only year out of 6 that he started more than 30 games. Never more than 20 before that.

With a record 239 innings pitched last year. I fear he may shred his arm in a shorter amount of time. And after 6 yrs how much Longer can he play and be effected. A alot to be sure, unless like I said, he shreds his arm or returns to his pre 2002 form.

Very good numbers but lack of playing time. Was he hurt? or just not in the rotation and kept being sent to the farm.

Just some observations. Thanks guys.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:30 pm

All good points too. Yes, he may have six years (this is only his fifth year of Service time however) in the bigs. But he's still only 26. They rushed him the bigs, as he started his first major league game at 21 years old. 1999 he had something of a misleading year. His ERA was solid at 3.92, but his strikeout to walk ratio was horrible at 82:79.

This caught up to him the next year and he spent much of the year bouncing between the Jays and Triple-A trying to refine his control.

In 2001, the Jays started him off in Class-A where he rebuilt his delivery and harnessed his intense emotions. He didn't appear in the bigs until July and surprised everyone with the newfound control and domi Nance, posting a 96:25 strikeout to walk ratio. This is where everyone got excited. I know I grabbed him in two leagues last year and rode his pitching all year Long.

I'm not so worried about him sh Redding his arm either, as he's a big kid and a good athlete. His delivery is relatively smooth and he generates power from his legs, which keeps stress of the arm. He could be a 200 inning guy for the next 10 years if he continues to work hard and keep in shape.

Bat Boy Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 6 Location: Boston

Thanks for the insights

hope noone minds me joining in on the discussions.

Thanks Thumbs Up

Posted: Thu May 29, 2003 8:02 am

We are very glad you are joining in on the discussions. The purpose of these forums is not just for people to pose questions for the staff at rotochamps, but rather to create a community of fantasy fanatics who can share thoughts and ideas.